....OUR moral compass, and yet, we have shown a capacity to behave far worse than chimps, while possessing superior abilities to prevent such atrocities and further still, we have demonstrated an ability to collectively not show remorse, shame and accountability for such criminality and will go so far as to colour right of action via ideologies, whether economic, political or religious.

Now forgive this old apes' inability to wrap my brain aroun that but it haunts me because it is the very bestial human being who will kill anyone or anything in pursuit of things even chimps wouldn't pursue.

We have and continue to make war, steal, torture in pursuit of acquiring more bananas that we could ever eat nor need as we claim to be, in a majority sense,a spiritual species with indoctrinated moral values based upon our self-applauded higher-evolved ability to believe in God! I'll leave it at that..

My point is not to debate our human origins but rather that we humans do see ourselves as superior in ego-favouring ways, above the rest of "creation" and even go so far as to attribute our superiority as being deity-sanctioned and condoned and I have to ask what right do we have to make such a claim?

Where are our credentials making our premises on civility superior to any other especially when in one hand we hold some "divine moral guidebook" and the other hand on the button that launches nuclear strikes and bombs children.

SO I think the human species to be incredibly ego-centric and arrogant and at some point in our history, we became incongruent with God's nature, ignoring that fact that perhaps we are too limited a primate to assert that "we, the priveleged, know what the Truth is".

I think that based upon our record, in honest big picture objectivity, the very best We can offer is: firstly, we must have an acceptance that we are an arrogant self-aggrandising species, fraught with erroneous thinking; and; secondly, that the best we can come up with as far as truth is concerned, is conjecture and that conjecture, I believe, is not enough upon which to bank any kind of claim or monopoly on truth.

So when i see such parallels between chimps and modern humans, you can understand why I see further egocentric errors made by anyone who would make claim that even older primtive societies didn't have as much "culture" as we do.

The distinctions amongst our differences, while our egos will make full use of them to assuage our illusory self-image, are still captured within the common limitations of primates. It has been said that a human can draw a pciture of himself whilst an ape cannot, but only the human thinks this is any real accomplishment of worth.

Now when I first came to know TUB there was some discussions about the language used in TUB, where by I thought it odd that there was martial language used, and hierachical constructs used. And these terms fall well within the human/primate invention so I guess I expected that an advanced concept would frame itself in an advanced framework, where the kinds of superiority/inferiority hierarchies were not necessary to communicate effectively.

So while without words/schools/PHd's, written language, a chimp society can engage in behaviours akin to modern humans and vice versa, regardless of any substantial differences between the species, the frameworks are similar to our modern societies and as expressed in TUB, framed within constructs parallelling chimp society. Maybe that should be enough to humble us as to our place in the grand scheme of things.

And if ever higher elements of spirituality are to be garnered, I don't think we will get there as long as we frame our reality within parameters of destructive primate behaviours. Until we understand humility, we will remain rapacious apes.

Ok, I'm done. Thank you for your perspectives Christel.